Tuesday, November 08, 2016

There's a lawyer who's sure, all that glitters is gold..." Led Zeppelin On Trial: Part One - Jimmy Page On The Stand


For decades the rumours had been doing the rounds and the evidence was damning.  One listen to Taurus by the band Spirit and you’ll swear black and blue that Jimmy Page had stolen the main guitar riff for Stairway To Heaven.  One day Randy California, the man who wrote Taurus would eventually sue Page and co. and he’d win, and win big.  It really was supposed to be that simple.

It was anything but simple.  Unlike previous cases brought against Page, Plant, Jones and Bonham, such as Willie Dixon suing over the obvious rewrite of You Need Love (aka Whole Lotta Love), or Jake Holmes finally winning a massive payout and partial credit after Page outright stole I’m Confused (aka Dazed And Confused) and other cases – Anne Bredon won a settlement for Babe I’m Gonna Leave You, Howlin’ Wolf got money for How Many More Times, The Killing Floor (aka The Lemon Song), Willie Dixon (again, got paid for Bring it On Home and the owner of Richie Valens publishing got paid for Ooh! My Head(aka Boogie With Stu).  All the cases were settled out of court, and all had non-disclosure clauses.

However the amount of songs that Zeppelin did steal was legion.  In My Time Of Dying and Nobody’s Fault But Mine were blues staples, already old when the band were in nappies.  Communication Breakdown owes a lot to Eddie Cochran’s Nervous Breakdown, Shake ‘Em On Down was yet another song, by Bukka White, already old before Plant sang it again and called it Hats Off To Roy (Harper).  Even Black Dog is rooted in blues and owes a lot to Oh Well by Fleetwood Mac.  So why did they steal?

Page was asked about that very topic in 1993 in the magazine Guitar World.  “Well, as far as my end of it goes, I always tried to bring something fresh to anything that I used,” he said at the time.  “I always made sure to come up with some variation. In fact, I think in most cases, you would never know what the original source could be. Maybe not in every case– but in most cases. So most of the comparisons rest on the lyrics. And Robert was supposed to change the lyrics, and he didn’t always do that– which is what brought on most of the grief. They couldn’t get us on the guitar parts of the music, but they nailed us on the lyrics.”  However, for this case, Page was looking to be nailed on the guitar line, not Plant’s lyrics.

The case was a bit of a shambles from the start.  Named as one of the songwriters was bassist John Paul Jones.  While an argument can certainly be made for Jones having more than the usual involvement in the writing and arranging aspect of the song, he’s not listed as a songwriter, which meant that he couldn’t be sued.  Simple.  Such oversights can make or break a case as it damages the credibility of the plaintiff right from the start and ties the court up in having to dismiss the case against a party, something it hates.  And then there was the time frame.

Randy California never sued over what he felt was a clear and obvious theft.  Sadly he passed away in 1997, either, depending on who you believe, bitter over the fact that Page and Plant had made millions from his distinctive guitar line, or just not really caring, having accepted it and moved on with his life.  Either way, he died and the Zeppelin machine continued on.

In 2007 Zeppelin flew again, for one night.  This irked the owner of California’s songs, one Michael Skidmore.  Then Jimmy Page oversaw new editions of the band’s back catalogue, bought, as you’ll read, for $60,000,000 for a ten year period by Rhino, complete as deluxe boxed editions and with companion discs.  As the companion disc of Led Zeppelin IV contained a previously unissued mix of Stairway To Heaven, this meant that the band could be sued – it was, for all intents and purposes, a new recording and eligible under the statute of limitations.  Armed with that knowledge, Skidmore filed suit and the music world sat back waited for Page and Plant to once again settle out of court.

They didn’t.  There’d be two songs that the band would never allow anyone to touch – Stairway and the epic Kashmir.  Plant isn’t fond of the former, it’s become a millstone around his neck and he refuses to sing it, however the latter is something that all the band members are rightly proud of and Plant loves to sing it.  Having a reluctance to sing a song doesn’t mean that you’re ashamed of it, so Plant joined forces with Page and decided to take the case to trial.

The case was filled with errors, as stated, from the beginning.  There were claims that Zeppelin opened for Spirit during the formers first American tour – this was proven to consist of a handful of occasions when both bands appeared on the bills at festivals.  There was the issue of Jones being credited as a writer.  Then there were the two songs themselves.  The lawyers for Skidmore had to prove on thing – that Page not only heard the song Taurus back in the late 1960s, but he consciously lifted the offending notes for the intro to Stairway To Heaven.  Jimmy Page might be old now, he’s 72, and he was being asked about events over forty years past (and a lot of drink and drugs have slipped under his bridge) and he has vision issues, but, when he wants to be, he’s as slippery as an eel and as sharp as a tack.

And then there was Robert Plant, the other half of Stairway.  Possessed of quick wit, intelligence and a memory that is clearer than even he would admit, he took the stand and said his own bit.

At the end of the trial the jury had no hesitation in reaching their verdict.  Did Jimmy Page have access to Taurus pre-Stairway?  Yes, he did.  Did he steal the guitar line?  No.  Not guilty, your honor.

Read here, for free and for what I believe is the first time, over the next three days, the complete trial transcript of both Jimmy Page and Robert Plant, as both men, under oath, go toe to toe with a lawyer hell-bent on getting them to admit one thing and one thing only – that they stole the opening guitar notes that virtually everyone in the world knows by now.  The transcript is hilarious in places, it’s exhausting in others as Page is badgered beyond belief.  But it is entertaining and you will learn a few Zeppelin related facts that you might not have previously known before.  Enjoy!

(courtroom illustrations by Mona Shafer Edward)

Case No. Cv 15-03462-Rgk
United States District Court
Central District Of California - Western Division
Honorable R. Gary Klausner, U.S. District Judge
Michael Skidmore, As Trustee For The Randy Craig Wolfe Trust, 
Plaintiff, 
Vs.  
Led Zeppelin; James Patrick Page; Robert Anthony Plant; John Paul Jones; Super Hype Publishing, Inc.; Warner Music Group Corp., Parent Of Warner/Chappell Music, Inc.; Atlantic Recording Corporation; Rhino Entertainment Company, )
Defendants. 

THE CAST:
For Plaintiff Michael Skidmore as Trustee for The Randy Craig Wolfe Trust:
Francis Malofiy, Attorney At Law
Glen L. Kulik, Attorney At Law
For Defendant Led Zeppelin:
For Defendants James Patrick Page, Robert Anthony Plant:
Peter J. Anderson, Attorney At Law
For Defendants Warner/Chappell Music, Inc., Atlantic Recording
Corporation, Rhino Entertainment Company:
Peter J. Anderson, Attorney At Law
Also Present:
Nathan Osher, Warner/Chappell Music, Inc.
Brad Cohen, Warner Music Group
Scott Duval, Senior Technology Consultant
Kevin Segal, Trial Technician
Dan Moreno, Trial Technician

Trial Day 2, Wednesday, June 15, 2016
1:02 P.M.
Los Angeles, California

MR. MALOFIY: Our next witness is going to be Mr. Jimmy Page.
How you doing? Good to see you again.
THE CLERK: Please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give in the matter now before this Court shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
THE WITNESS: I do.
THE CLERK: May I please ask that you state your full name for the record and spell your last name.
THE WITNESS: My name is James Patrick Page, spelled P-A-G-E.
THE CLERK: Thank you.
THE COURT: Counsel, you may inquire.
JAMES PATRICK PAGE, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MALOFIY:  Mr. Page, thank you for being here. I know you came from all the way over from the UK.
If you recall, we had a deposition many months ago.
Do you recall that?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And we spent a lot of time together asking questions in regards to this case.
Do you recall that?
A. I do.
Q. And also in regards to this case, you had put together a declaration.
Do you recall that?
A. Initially, yes.
Q. And in your declaration, you had indicated that you actually had Spirit's first album.
Do you recall that?
A. That's correct.
MR. MALOFIY: All right. Now, this exhibit is at 373, and we do have that. I'd like to mark it and move that into evidence, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. ANDERSON: If I can just have a moment, Your Honor, to --
THE COURT: Sure.
While they're doing that, if you could move that microphone a little closer to you so we can pick up your voice.
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
THE COURT: That's good. Thank you.
MR. ANDERSON: Your Honor, our records indicate that Exhibit 373 is -- is not a declaration. Looks like the back of a Spirit album.
MR. MALOFIY: That's what I said (indicating).
MR. ANDERSON: Oh, I thought you said declaration.
I'm sorry.
THE COURT: Any objection, counsel?
MR. ANDERSON: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. It may be marked.
(Trial Exhibit 373 marked for identification.)
THE WITNESS: Excuse me. Can I -- can I have a look at exactly what that album is?
MR. MALOFIY: Sure.
May I approach, Your Honor?
THE COURT: If you wish.
MR. MALOFIY: Thank you.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You recall that album, right?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And you recall that album because it's in your collection?
A. That's correct.
Q. Now, if you go --
MR. ANDERSON: It's vague and ambiguous as to whether he is suggesting that (indicating) --
THE COURT: Well, he's -- I'm assuming -- we're all assuming that it's not that exact album.
(Laughter.)
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you, Your Honor. Thank you, Your Honor.
THE WITNESS: Well, to be precise, I think this is -- this is different on the back to the one I have, but I have an album with that front.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You know -- you recognize the front of that album, correct?
A. Yes, I recognize the album now.
Q. And you recognize the band Spirit, correct?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. You're familiar with the band Spirit?
A. I am familiar with the --
Q. You're very familiar with the band Spirit, correct?
A. Not very familiar, but I'm familiar with the band, yeah.
Q. And you were aware of this band going back as far as 1960s, correct?
A. I'd heard their music on the radio in the 1960s, yeah.
Q. And let me go to the album itself.
If you look at the back of the album, do you see it has track listings?
A. Yes, it does.
Q. All right. And what's the first song there? Is it "Fresh Garbage"?
A. The first track is "Fresh Garbage."
Q. And what's the second track?
A. "Uncle Jack."
Q. What's the third track?
A. "Mechanical World."
Q. And then there's that fourth track?
A. "Taurus."
Q. "Taurus."
Now, you're familiar with the song "Fresh Garbage," correct?
A. Yes, I am.
Q. Very familiar, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. In fact, in your deposition, you said that you would play music of people you liked and chip a wink to what was hot in the scene at that time.
Do you remember that?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, Your Honor. Misstates the document.
THE COURT: Overruled. You can just ask him is that true, that statement.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay.
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  And do you recall that in your deposition, you said – you used the actual words "chip a wink."
Do you remember that?
A. I may have done.
Q. Okay. Well, I'm not going to pull it up, but do you recall saying that you would play bands that you felt were instrumental or important at the time?
A. I think I -- 
THE COURT: Go ahead. The question is -- go ahead.
You can answer the question.
THE WITNESS: Yeah. Chip a wink to that riff.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Well, you call it a riff, correct?
A. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Q. And you're familiar with the "Fresh Garbage" what you call riff, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. Because you actually included it in part of Led Zeppelin's live sets, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. All right. Now, when you say just a riff, isn't it true that you played it for minutes and minutes and minutes, this riff, over and over again?
A. Well, the nature of a riff anyway is the fact that it's a cycle of notes which is repetitive and repetitive.
Q. I'm just --
A. And so we employed it that way in a medley that we did. 
We used to play that riff over and jam over it.
Q. You didn't create that riff, did you?
A. No.
Q. You copied that riff?
A. Copied it? In what -- what do you mean? We – 
THE COURT: You played it.
THE WITNESS: We played it, yeah.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  But you didn't create it on your own, you took it from the band Spirit, correct?
A. I heard -- yeah, I'd heard -- I'd heard it.
Q. Now, to be clear, Mr. John Paul Jones, when he was deposed -- did you have an opportunity to ever see his deposition testimony?
A. Oh, no.
Q. No. Did you understand who brought that piece of music to the band, "the band" referring to Led Zeppelin?
A. Well, from my recollection, when -- when we were actually putting the band through the rehearsal stage, which was at my house, it was put forward as something for a medley that we were doing in a number called "As Long As" -- "As Long As I Have You."
So there would be "As Long As I Have You" -- a medley of bits and pieces and then "As Long As I Have You," and that was something that came up during that point in time.
Q. To be clear, the riff --
A. Something to jam over, yeah.
Q. Yeah, the riff from Spirit's first album --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- on the same side as "Taurus" was a bit and piece that you incorporated into music that Led Zeppelin played live on stage, correct?
A. That's fair enough.
Q. And you didn't just play it once, you played it many times, correct?
A. What do you mean by that? The riff? The amount of times of the riff in one number or subsequent days?
Q. Let me be more clear.
What I'm referring to is how many times did you play this in separate concerts?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: By "this," you mean that -- what did you call the comp- -- the composite?
THE WITNESS: A medley.
THE COURT: Yeah. What did you call it?
THE WITNESS: "As Long As I Have You" is the title.
THE COURT: Are you referring to the medley "As Long As I Have You," how many times did he play that?
MR. MALOFIY: Well, no, I'm referring to "Fresh Garbage," which was a piece contained in the medley.
THE COURT: Then why don't we ask the question again so we -- we're focusing on what you're asking.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  At how many difference concerts did you play this medley which contained the composition of "Fresh Garbage"?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: Okay. I -- I really don't know, but I do know that we -- we rehearsed the band and the Led Zeppelin outfit and then we had a handful of dates in Scandinavia, and by that I mean like half a dozen dates or so. 
Then we were doing a few dates in England, and we were recording the first album, and then we came over to the States.
So we're talking, say, somewhere between September and December. Whenever these early concerts were on, we were playing it then.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Now, would it be accurate to say you played it somewhere between 12 to 15 times in concert?
A. Oh, yes, I would say so, yes.
Q. And maybe even more, correct?
A. Maybe so.
Q. All right. Now, would you agree that Spirit is a band that you liked?
A. Yeah. I liked Spirit, yeah.
Q. And isn't it true that Spirit is a band that you appreciated over the years?
A. Well, I -- I bought a record of theirs, that's for sure.  In fact, I bought two records of theirs.
 Q. Let's go with the first record. What was the first record you bought by Spirit?
A. The Family That Play Together, which is an album that has like a Motel 6 cover on the front. It's got -- "I've Got a Line On You Babe" is the -- the sort of main track.
Q. And besides the first album that you bought and put in your collection, what was the second album that you bought and --
MR. ANDERSON: Objection.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  -- put in your collection?
MR. ANDERSON: Misstates the testimony. It's argumentative. There's no testimony he bought the first album.
MR. MALOFIY: I'm sorry. I thought he --
THE COURT: I'm sorry. How did -- how did you acquire the first album?
THE WITNESS: Well, I -- I --
THE COURT: Did you buy it or was it given to you?
THE WITNESS: To be honest with you, I'm not absolutely sure. But I definitely -- I could possibly have bought it or I was given it.
THE COURT: Yeah, that's a good answer. If you're not definitely sure, just say you're not sure. That's a great --
THE WITNESS: Sure.
THE COURT: -- answer.
Okay. Counsel.
MR. MALOFIY: Could I have his answer read back two answers ago?
THE COURT: Why don't you ask the next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Did you just testify that you had bought two Spirit albums?
A. Well, yeah, but loosely saying. I don't actually really know, but I was going to just say the albums that I had. 
Q. Well, I want to be clear, because I thought I heard you say on the stand under oath that you had bought two --
A. Yeah, maybe I did.
THE COURT: No. You --
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Well, hold on a second, because only one person can take down the testimony.
THE COURT: Well, and also only one person that tells him to hold on for a second, counsel. And it's not – 
MR. MALOFIY: I apologize, Your Honor. I apologize to Mr. Page.
(Laughter.)
THE COURT: You said -- you may or may not have said, "I bought the albums." Did you mean by that you have two of their albums?
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
THE COURT: And you're not too sure whether you bought them or were given you; you don't know right now?
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
THE COURT: Okay.
THE WITNESS: It -- I definitely have two --
THE COURT: Okay.
THE WITNESS: -- two of the albums that I remember getting in the day --
THE COURT: Okay.
THE WITNESS: -- yeah.
THE COURT: Then let's go ahead.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  To be clear, when you say you remember getting two -- getting two of the albums in the day, does that mean in the day of when they came out and were released?
A. In the '60s.
Q. All right.
A. '60s.
Q. Would you agree with me that the "Taurus" album that you -- excuse me. Would you agree with me that the Spirit album that you have, you bought in the '60s?
A. No.
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Vague and ambiguous.
The problem is Spirit is a group and the name of an album. It also misstates the testimony.
THE COURT: Sustained. He indicated that he somehow or another acquired two and he acquired them in the '60s.
Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Well, was it the first Spirit album that you acquired in the '60s, sir?
A. No.
Q. What Spirit album did you acquire in the '60s?
A. The two albums that I -- that I sort of recollect having had and what I do have are Family Plays Together and Clear Spirit, which I believe is the third album. Second album, third album.
Q. Did you acquire those albums after hearing "Fresh Garbage" and being familiar with that piece of work from the first album?
A. I seem to remember -- well, I seem to remember the first album that comes into my possession is the Motel 6 album, The Family that Plays Together with "I Got a Line on You Babe." So that's as a result probably of hearing that on the radio, that track.
Q. And then the second album?
A. The other album that I've got, the third album, Clear Spirit, yeah, that had -- "Dark Eyed Woman" was the title track on there.
And I quite liked -- I quite liked both of those songs, "I've Got a Line on You Babe" and "Dark Eyed Woman."
Q. "I've Got a Line on You" was a charting single, correct?
A. Well, I don't know. I guess so.
Q. You heard it on the radio, correct?
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. It was very popular in the UK, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. It was popular --
A. I heard it over here, though.
Q. It was popular in the U.S., too, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. Now, my question earlier on was a little different. I asked you did you -- were you familiar with "Fresh Garbage" from Spirit's first album prior to purchasing the second and third -- or prior to purchasing the second and third album?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. Okay. Is that what caused you to purchase the second and third album?
A. I don't know whether that's the reason at all, no.
Q. Do you happen to know why you purchased the second and third album?
A. Because I liked the tracks that I -- that I heard on the -- you know, I bought them independent. I didn't buy them both together; it was as I heard the songs on the radio.
Q. I see. So you heard Spirit songs on the radio, you liked them, and then you went to go buy the albums?
A. Yeah.
Q. I see.
A. Yeah, the second album and the third album.
Q. Only the second album and the third album?
A. Yeah.
Q. Although you're familiar --
A. Didn't get around to getting the first album.
Q. Well, you -- at some point you got around to getting the first album.
A. Well, I don't know. It's in -- it's in my collection.
Q. So somehow it was discovered by you in your collection, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. You're not really sure how that happened, though?
A. No.
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: Overruled.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Now, let's go to your declaration.
In your declaration -- excuse me.
In your response to your interrogatories, Response to Interrogatory Number 11, the question was asked by plaintiff: "Have you ever acquired a recording of 'Taurus' by purchasing it or any other means? State the date or approximate date when this occurred."
Your answer was: "At some time presently unknown to defendant, he came into possession of the album Spirit, which he understands includes a recording of 'Taurus' that he did not listen to."
Now, it says: "Discovery is not complete and defendant reserves the right to supplement or amend the foregoing response."
Is that still your response as you --
THE COURT: Counsel, that's not proper. You can read in the interrogatories and the responses just like depositions. 
You don't ask whether or not the deposition was true. It's testimony just like -- it comes in to the jury just like testimony from a deposition.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  That was your -- that was your interrogatory response, correct?
A. Sir, could you please repeat the question?
Q. Was your interrogatory response accurate when you said:
"At some time presently unknown to Mr. Page, he came into possession of the album Spirit, which he understands includes a recording of 'Taurus' that he did not listen to."
A. Well, I do know when the time of that was. It wasn't a time unknown. I know when the time was.
Q. Okay. So did you then discover when you came into possession of this album?
A. Yes.
Q. When was that?
A. Okay. It was after the internet comparisons came up, which is a few years ago. And I -- well, my son-in-law brought it to my attention that there was a comparison of "Stairway to Heaven" and a Spirit song, and I said that I'd like to hear it. 
I don't do the internet or the computer, so he played it to me. And initially, what happened was that there was some music there which I've never heard before, like an orchestra, and I said, "Well, what is this?" And then it goes into the sort of rundown on acoustic guitar. And he said, "This is the Spirit song." So I knew that I had never heard it before.
But what I did do, within a week of that, I went to the location where all my records are and I thought, you know, "I'll have a look," because he -- well, basically, "I'm going to have a look and see what Spirit records I've got." 
And what happens is -- I know that in my mind that there were two records that I had, which is the second album and the third album, and then it turns out that I've got the Twelve Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus and even a Spirit live album, which is like a double album. I mean, I have no recollection of that whatsoever. But there is this album, the first album.
I don't know how it got there or anything.
Q. Okay. So to be clear, you have the first album of Spirit, correct?
A. It's in the collection.
Q. In your collection?
A. Yeah.
Q. Then you have the second album of Spirit --
A. Yes.
Q. -- correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You have the third album of Spirit?
A. Yes.
Q. You have Twelve Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus, another album of Spirit?
A. Yes.
Q. So -- and then you have a double album of Spirit live.
A. That's correct.
Q. So in total, you have one, two, three, four, five, six albums of Spirit in your collection?
A. Is that because one is a double album?
Q. That is why.
A. Okay. Well, I can tell you I've never even heard that album.
Q. You just had it in your collection?
A. Yeah. I've got -- I've actually -- just because of this trial, I've checked to see how many records I've got, and there's a count as of yesterday and it's 4,329 albums and 5,882 CDs. That's a massive amount and, you know, I can assure you I haven't heard --
THE COURT: Let me hold you up just a second.
That's quite -- we have to do it through questions and answers.
THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.  Do you mind if I have some water?
THE COURT: No, we'll get you some. Just a second.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
MR. MALOFIY: May I proceed or do you want to wait?
THE COURT: Yes, certainly.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  So in your collection, you have five Spirit albums. One of them is a double live set of Spirit, correct?
And you have a number of music in your collection.
Do you recall -- do you remember every song you've ever heard, sir?
A. Do I remember every song I've ever heard? I couldn't possibly say that I could.
Q. Is it possible you've heard the song "Taurus" and just didn't take mental note of it?
MR. ANDERSON: Calls for speculation.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  How many times did you listen to the first album?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Argumentative.
THE COURT: Overruled. If you know.
THE WITNESS: Well, I don't think I have listened to the first album, even since the comparisons and all of that. I didn't really want to get too close to it.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Okay. I understand.
How about the second album? How many times did you listen to the second album?
A. Oh, quite a -- quite a few, I would think.
Q. How many times?
A. I don't know. I can't tell. This is so far -- a long, long while ago.
Q. More than 10? Less than 10?
A. I'd say more than 10 times.
Q. More than 20?
A. Yes.
Q. More than 50?
A. No, I don't think so.
Q. Somewhere between --
A. Maybe it's somewhere between 10 and 20. I don't know. It was quite a popular album. I enjoyed it. I did listen to the album.
Q. What about The Family That Plays Together? How many times did you listen to that album?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. I think that's asked and answered. That is the second album.
MR. MALOFIY: I'm sorry.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  The sec- -- excuse me, the third album.
A. Clear --
MR. MALOFIY: I'm getting some clarification now.
THE WITNESS: Clear Spirit, yeah.
Probably not as many times as the -- that I -- that I listened to the second album.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Less than 20?
A. It's hard to -- it's hard to quantify this.
Q. Less than --
A. Not so much.
Q. Would it be less than 20?
A. Yes, less than 20, I would say.
Q. More than 10?
A. I'm not sure.
Q. What about the --
A. Let's say eight times. I really -- you know, I'm speculating. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. It's so difficult to remember that far back. I used to listen to a lot of music.
THE COURT: That's okay.
Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  It's so hard to remember that far back -- do you remember -- or do you have any recollection of playing "Taurus" ever?
A. No. Only more recently --
Q. So your --
A. -- hearing it.
Q. Is your memory clear and distinct as to whether or not you heard "Taurus," but to other songs you're not sure?
A. No, no. I -- the fact is that when the internet comparison was there, there was this orchestra, and -- and it was just totally alien to me.
And when you said do I have a good recall on music, yes, I think I do, and something like that would stick in my mind, you know? I'd remember that and the acoustic guitar part. But it was totally alien to me. I didn't know it.
THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, it is 2:30, so we're going to break for our afternoon recess. We'll see you back in 15 minutes.
Remember the admonishment not to discuss the case among yourselves or with anybody else or form or express any opinions about the matter until it's submitted to you and you retire to the jury room.
We'll see you back in 15 minutes. We'll be in recess.
(Jury out at 2:30 P.M.)
(Recess taken 2:30 to 2:44 P.M.)
(Jury in at 2:44 P.M.)
THE COURT: Okay. The record will reflect that all the members of the jury are in their respective seats in the jury box, the witness is on the witness stand, and he is under direct examination.
Counsel, you may continue.
MR. MALOFIY: Thank you.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You had testified a moment ago before break that once you heard -- you said that once you heard "Taurus," you -- recently -- that's what you testified to -- that you would have recognized it, it would have stuck in your mind, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Misstates the testimony.
THE COURT: Overruled.
Is that what you said?
THE WITNESS: I said that when I heard the comparison of -- that was on the internet between "Stairway to Heaven" and "Taurus" a few years ago, that when it came to the "Taurus" part, it started off with an orchestra, which is pretty – you know, it's a pretty memorable thing, is what it was, except it wasn't in my memory because I hadn't heard it before.
And so I was a bit confused as I was hearing the comparison, because I thought what's that got to do with "Stairway to Heaven"? And it followed in --
THE COURT: Let me interrupt you just for a second, because I don't think that's exactly what his question was. I think --
THE WITNESS: Sorry.
THE COURT: -- the question was when you heard it --
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
THE COURT: -- and you're talking about that now. 
When you heard it, was it the type of song that you said to yourself, "I would have remembered this if I heard it earlier"?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay. Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Now, let's get -- you heard the album recording, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: The question lacks foundation.
THE COURT: I'm sorry. State the question again.
You heard what?
BY MR. MALOFIY:  When you heard "Taurus" recently, you were listening to the album recording, correct?
A. That's what it said it was, yeah.
Q. Right. And what you have in your collection is actually the album recording that was released to the public, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And did you happen to listen to your album "Taurus" on your record player?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: No, I didn't.
THE COURT: Whose record player did you listen to "Taurus" on?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection.
THE WITNESS: I didn't --
THE COURT: Yeah, well, why don't you clarify how you heard it.
THE WITNESS: Yeah. I heard it on an internet comparison between "Stairway to Heaven" and "Taurus."
THE COURT: So you heard it on the computer.
THE WITNESS: That's where I heard it, on -- yeah, on the computer.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  And it's a comparison of the "Taurus" album recording and the "Stairway to Heaven" --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- album recording --
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Lacks foundation.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  -- is that correct?
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: It was the album.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  All right. Now, when you listened to the album, you said it didn't sound familiar to you and it was something you would have recognized.
Are you referring to specifically the first 45 seconds of "Taurus" or did you actually listen to the song all the way through?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, Your Honor. Compound.
Lacks foundation.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. ANDERSON: Calls for speculation.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: The -- what was on the comparison, I believe, as far as I remember, was the orchestra preceding the acoustic guitar.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Now, once the acoustic guitar came in, isn't it true the two songs are similar in that section?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: Oh, I don't think so.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You don't think so?  Do you --
A. Sorry. Can you just -- can you just repeat that again exactly? You said after the introduction --
Q. Yes. After the introduction --
A. The orchestra.
Q. -- of the album recording of "Taurus" which you listened to at some point --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- and then you said it went into an acoustic guitar part --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- when you heard those -- that acoustic guitar part and when it went down the chord progression, did you recognize that chord progression as being similar to the chord progression in "Stairway to Heaven"?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, Your Honor. It's within the motion in limine. He's talking about the sound recording. 
THE COURT: Sustained.
We're talking about just the -- what was – what was --
MR. ANDERSON: The deposit copy that was --
THE COURT: The deposit copy. Thank you. I couldn't think of the name. We were talking about just the deposit copy.
The only question is whether or not it's similar to the deposit copy, not to what was on the record.
MR. MALOFIY: The -- Your Honor, if I may briefly?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. MALOFIY: The reason it's at issue is because we have a dispute of access. In other cases, there was no dispute of access. Mr. Page did not hear the deposit copy ever, he heard the album recording.
And how can I ask this gentleman if he's ever heard this album, the Spirit "Taurus" sound recording, if I don't get a chance to play it for him?
THE COURT: You got it. You can't.
Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Sir, did you ever go to the Library of Congress?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever see the "Taurus" deposit copy lead sheet marked as Exhibit --
MR. MALOFIY: Mr. Anderson, was it 2065?
MR. ANDERSON: I believe it's 2058 or 2085, but --
MR. MALOFIY: 2058. Can we pull it up?
THE WITNESS: When precisely --
THE COURT: Just a second. We have to -- you want to pull it up first?
MR. MALOFIY: I would. It was used in the prior deposition -- excuse me, prior witness, Mr. Andes.
THE COURT: Okay. You're losing me with all the -- is there a question pending in front of the witness at this time?
MR. MALOFIY: Yes. I want to ask --
THE COURT: What -- what is that question?
MR. MALOFIY: -- him if he ever saw -- I'm sorry, Your Honor. I --
THE COURT: Wait. What is the question?
MR. MALOFIY: If he ever saw the deposit copy or lead sheet of "Taurus" which was deposited in the copyright office.
THE COURT: Perfect. Thank you.
THE WITNESS: The Library of Congress? No, I never visited the Library of Congress.
THE COURT: Okay. Thank you.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  At any point, did you see --
MR. MALOFIY: Can we publish this for Mr. Page?
(The exhibit was displayed on the screen.)
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You have what's marked as Exhibit 2058. I'll represent to you it's the "Taurus" deposit copy that was produced in this case.
Have you ever -- saw this piece of music?
A. Well, I'm not -- I'm not absolutely sure. I don't think I have, but it might have been flashed past me at some point in my preparation. But I don't think I've seen this.
Q. And --
A. It doesn't -- no.
Q. And is it -- is it fair to assume that if you had heard "Taurus" at any point, it would have been from the album recording?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Lacks foundation. Calls for speculation.
THE COURT: Overruled. You haven't heard "Taurus" from any other thing other than the recording, have you?
THE WITNESS: Sorry, sir?
THE COURT: You haven't heard "Taurus" from any other means other than the recording that you mentioned?
THE WITNESS: That's correct.
THE COURT: Okay. Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Are you familiar with deposit copies that are deposited in the copyright office, sir?
MR. ANDERSON: Vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: No, I'm not familiar with any sort of things like that.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Did you ever have an opportunity to see the "Stairway to Heaven" deposit copy that was deposited in the copyright office?
A. No. I didn't have anything to do with doing that.
Q. Did you ever transcribe the notes to give to someone to deposit into the deposit -- into the copyright office for "Stairway to Heaven"?
A. Not that I remember.
Q. At any point, did anyone ever play you the deposit copy of "Taurus"?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Calls for speculation.
THE COURT: Overruled. But he's already testified that he never heard "Taurus" at anything other than the – what was on the record, so it's already been asked and answered. 
BY MR. MALOFIY:  And even as you sit here today, you've never heard the "Taurus" deposit copy, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: I -- I don't know whether I've – I don't know at what point I would have heard it.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  When you heard the album recording of "Taurus," where were you?
A. I was in my house in London.
Q. Who was there?
A. My son-in-law and myself.
Q. Did you hear it from the internet?
A. Yeah.
Q. And are these the internet comparisons of "Stairway to Heaven" and "Taurus" which are -- exist?
A. Sorry. The what?
Q. When you heard it, you were -- you were looking at comparisons that people have done of the two works, the "Taurus" album recording and the "Stairway to Heaven" album recording --
A. There was --
Q. -- correct?
A. There was something that appeared on the internet a couple of years ago or so, and it had -- and it had like the Led Zeppelin "Stairway to Heaven" and the -- and the "Taurus."
And it -- there was some sort of buzz going on, that there was a comparison going on --
Q. When you say "buzz" --
A. -- and he -- and so my son-in-law brought it to my attention.
You see, the thing is I don't do -- I don't do the internet, so I'm not like anybody else in here, because, you know, most people go on the internet and they see what's trending and all this sort of stuff. I don't do that, so he brought it to my attention.
Q. When he brought --
THE COURT: Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  When he brought it to your attention, did he say, "Hey, these two songs sound the same"?
A. No, he didn't say that at all.
Q. What, if anything, did you do after that?
A. I didn't do anything immediately after it. I don't think I -- I think I might have asked him to play it again, the comparisons, you know, and that was it. Didn't discuss it, really, with him even --
Q. And it's your --
A. -- not to any real degree.
Q. And when you heard it, did you say, "Hey, these sound similar"?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection again. Relevance. It's --
THE COURT: Sustained. Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Let me move --
THE COURT: It's the jury that has to determine whether it's similar or not, not the witness.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Sir, let's be clear. "Taurus" and "Stairway to Heaven" are in the same key, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And it's A minor, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. You'd agree that the tempo of "Taurus" and "Stairway to Heaven" are very similar, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Tempo doesn't appear in the deposit copy.
THE WITNESS: Yeah, it didn't --
MR. ANDERSON: He's now going back to the sound recording.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Sir, you never heard the "Taurus" deposit copy, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained. He said he has not.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Sir, in the instrumentation of those two pieces of work that you heard on the internet, was the -- were they – did they both incorporate an acoustic guitar?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. There's no instrumentation in the deposit copy. It's irrelevant and it's barred by the ruling on the motion in limine.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Sir, the arrangement -- wouldn't you agree that the arrangement is similar of "Taurus" and "Stairway to Heaven"?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Vague and ambiguous as to --
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: What do you mean by "the arrangement"?
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Remember in your deposition we discussed the structure of the two songs, "Stairway to Heaven" and "Taurus"?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection again. He asked him about the sound recording.
THE WITNESS: It depends on what you mean about remember. There's a lot that was discussed about it.
THE COURT: Let me back off a little bit.
Again, ladies and gentlemen, what we're concerned about is if there is a copying of the deposit copy, not the musical arrangement that was played or performed. It was the deposit copy. And so the only thing we're concerned with here is the similarity between "Stairway to Heaven" and the deposit copy, and so that's why we're limiting it just to the comparison of those two.
Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Sir, you've never done an analysis of whether or not the "Taurus" deposit copy and the song "Stairway to Heaven" are the similar -- are similar, have you?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. It's irrelevant and it's argumentative.
THE COURT: Overruled. You never heard it?
THE WITNESS: No. I heard it today, though.
THE COURT: Okay.
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
THE COURT: Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  All right. So when you heard it today, would you agree that the tempos are similar?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. It's for the jury.
Relevance.
THE WITNESS: Well, when I heard the deposit copy --
THE COURT: Excuse me. Excuse me.
THE WITNESS: Sorry.
THE COURT: Has he been designated as an expert in this area?
MR. ANDERSON: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. MALOFIY: Not designated as an expert, but the alleged composer of "Stairway to Heaven," and so I would like to inquire as to those issues, respectfully, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you remember when we discussed the structure of "Stairway to Heaven"?
A. I remember that we did discuss that. I don't know what specifically you're referring to, though, because we -- we had a conversation that went over hours. So what precisely is it that you want to ask me about that?
Q. During that conversation that went on for hours where we shared tea --
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. -- do you recall that we discussed the Part A of "Stairway to Heaven" and that Part A repeats itself twice, does it not? 
A. Yes, it does, that's correct.
Q. And then it goes to a Part B, correct?
A. Right, yeah.
Q. And then it goes to Part A and Part A repeats itself, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then it goes to Part B, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then it goes to Part A two more times, correct?
A. I think that's correct.
Q. So just a recap here, it's A-A-B-A-A-B-A-A, correct?
A. I think so.
Q. And that's the same structure as the "Taurus" deposit copy, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Again, he's not a designated expert.
THE COURT: Well, not only that, he -- sustained. He can't testify as to the deposit copy. He can testify to what his is and what he did.
THE WITNESS: Sorry. Am I --
THE COURT: That's okay. You don't answer. When I sustain it, you don't answer it.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  When you heard this --
THE COURT: To help you out, if I -- if I overrule an objection, then you answer it; if I sustain an objection, you don't answer. Okay?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead, counsel.
MR. MALOFIY: Yes.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  When you heard the comparison that you had said was creating a lot of buzz on the internet of "Stairway to Heaven" and "Taurus," did you recognize that there was any similarities?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Again -- same objections, Your Honor --
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. ANDERSON: -- relevance and --
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you remember, prior to your deposition, you said that you didn't have a recollection of liking the band Spirit?
A. Sorry?
Q. Remember when we had the deposition in London? Do you recall that?
A. Yeah, I do.
Q. Yeah. And do you recall that it was under intense questioning that you had to then say that you did, in fact, like the band Spirit?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Vague. Ambiguous.
THE COURT: It was argumentative.
MR. ANDERSON: Argumentative.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you remember initially in this case, you didn't indicate that you liked the band Spirit?
A. I don't know that that's --
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Argumentative.
THE COURT: Overruled.
Did you ever say you didn't like the band Spirit?
THE WITNESS: I -- I didn't ever say I didn't like the band Spirit.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Didn't you forget that you liked the band Spirit until I questioned you in your deposition and played you an audio clip of your own voice from 1972 where you said, "I like the band Spirit"?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Sir, do you recall in your deposition you admitted that you liked the band Spirit after hearing an interview where you had said that?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Argumentative.
THE COURT: Yeah, let's cut through it. Overruled.
Let's see if you can answer the question. Go ahead.
THE WITNESS: I think really, basically, I've said that I've liked Spirit over the years. I mean, I don't think that that is really in question, is it? Or is it in doubt?
BY MR. MALOFIY:  All right.
A. I mean, I've said it -- I've -- you know, I've liked Spirit. I've liked a lot of bands, to be honest with you. 
THE COURT: Did you ever say you didn't like – did not like Spirit?
THE WITNESS: I didn't say -- I've never said I didn't like Spirit, no.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Isn't it true that you forgot until I played you your quote from an interview where you said, "I like Spirit," that you forgot that you liked Spirit except until that time? 
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Argumentative. Relevance.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: I'm not sure that that is exactly how it was, Mr. Malofiy.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Well, thank you.
A. The question -- no. It was a question that I was asked about an interview, and I couldn't -- and, "Did you say this, did you say that," and I said, "I don't remember the circumstances of giving an interview, whenever it was, way back in the day," and I stand by that. I don't remember the circumstances of interviews from 40 years ago or whatever.
Q. Well, let me play that deposition clip for you, Mr. Page. It is 439 -- page 439, lines 3 to 6.
MR. ANDERSON: If I could just have a moment, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Sure.
MR. ANDERSON: No objections, Your Honor. Excuse me, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
(Playing of videotape.)
MR. MALOFIY: Sorry. Maybe we can start from the beginning, please. It was a tech issue.  We have to cue it up again. I apologize.
THE COURT: Okay.
(Playing of videotape.)
MR. ANDERSON: Your Honor, if I may, that's not the testimony he cited. So if I can just have a moment to read it.
THE COURT: No. And he's played the testimony, and let's move on to the next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Now, do you remember when I played you the interview, you remembered that you liked the band Spirit?
A. Well, Mr. Malofiy, the time readout on that last clip looks like it's 6:54 at night, and we began that deposition very, very early on in the day.
THE COURT: Let's not talk about when the deposition --
THE WITNESS: Sorry. Okay.
THE COURT: -- was taken or not.
THE WITNESS: Sorry. Do I remember --
THE COURT: Excuse me. One of the things is you said something about not remembering ever saying you did or didn't like them, and that's in.
I don't know what the next question is, but I'm not too sure if it conflicts with what he's already stated. What's the next question?
There's a difference between saying, "I don't remember if I said I liked them or liked them" and saying, "I didn't like them." There's a difference there.
Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  That was your testimony under oath, correct, even though it was late?
THE COURT: Counsel, you read the deposition in. It's read to the jury.
MR. MALOFIY: Thank you.
One second.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Did you ever say Spirit is a band that struck you on an emotional level?
A. I don't know that I said that.
Q. Did you ever say Spirit is a band you really liked in interviews in the early '70s?
A. Yeah, I could have said it was a band I liked, yeah.
Q. Are -- isn't it true that you, in fact, did say, "Spirit is a band I really liked" in an interview?
THE COURT: If you remember.
THE WITNESS: It's quite possible, yeah. I don't know which interview.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Well --
THE COURT: You're saying it's quite possible you would have --
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: -- said that?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  The interview is the ZigZag interview in 1972. It's 160-A.
MR. MALOFIY: Can we play that clip?
THE COURT: No, counsel. That's not -- that's not impeachment from what he said.
MR. MALOFIY: Well --
THE COURT: Counsel, it's not impeachment. It has to be a clear impeaching statement where he's saying something contrary to what he's saying now. He's saying he could have, he couldn't have. It's not impeachment.
Next question.
MR. MALOFIY: It only -- he is a party, Your Honor, and it's for that reason, as well. But I --
THE COURT: Next question, counsel.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  So isn't it true that you did, in fact, say that you liked the band Spirit in 1972?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Asked and answered.
THE COURT: It is asked and answered. He says he very likely did.
In fact, I think you said you did say you liked them.
THE WITNESS: I did say I liked them.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Now, isn't it true that you also said in the late '7- -- in the early '70s that you saw Spirit play live?
A. I'm not so sure that I said that.
Q. Okay.
(Counsel confer off the record.)
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you recall saying to a reporter, when asked the question, "Can I ask you about certain bands? Like you mentioned Buffalo Springfield in connection with all the offshoots of these things. Don't you like their stuff," you went on to answer:
"They were like that, very cut and dried and very samey every night. They were obviously very good, even though they didn't strike me on an emotional level like Spirit did, for instance. I saw Spirit a couple times and thought they were very good."
Do you remember those words?
A. I certainly don't remember those words, actually.
Q. Is it possible you also don't remember listening to "Taurus" back in the early '70s?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: Actually, where you are putting something which is -- I'm supposed to be quoted on in a day when people were just taking notes --
THE COURT: Let me help you here, because sometimes rules of court are a little different and so you have to explain them.
If he asked a question, he's not insinuating, and the jury is not to take it as being true unless you say that it's true.
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
THE COURT: So they're not to take it as being true that you said that unless somebody comes in and testifies to that. So --
THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. Yeah.
THE COURT: So let's --
THE WITNESS: Because I can't really tell, you see, it's so --
THE COURT: I understand.
THE WITNESS: -- long ago.
THE COURT: I understand.
THE WITNESS: But it could be distorted, too. 
THE COURT: And let's go ahead and proceed with the next question --
THE WITNESS: But --
THE COURT: -- and let's -- it's okay.
Next question.
And if your counsel wants you to expound on it, he'll ask you further questions.
Go ahead, counsel.
MR. MALOFIY: I'd like to move in Exhibit 157 into evidence, which is the ZigZag article which was produced by defendants in this case, which has this quote from Mr. Page. It's Exhibit -- Defendants' Exhibit 157.
MS. FREEMAN: Your Honor, we were asked to produce -- this particular quote was in the complaint.
THE COURT: Counsel, is there any objection to these?
MS. FREEMAN: Yes, Your Honor. We object. It's hearsay. It's hearsay. The witness has said he doesn't know.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. MALOFIY: One second, with the Court's indulgence. We're trying to pull up an audio.
THE COURT: I'm sorry, counsel. I thought you were talking about a newspaper article.
MR. MALOFIY: It is, but we believe there is also associated audio with the newspaper article.
THE COURT: I don't -- counsel, what are you – what are you talking about? Is this an article that was in the paper?
MR. MALOFIY: This is an article, yes, that was produced by defendants --
THE COURT: And it was --
MR. MALOFIY: -- in the case.
THE COURT: And it was an audio?
MR. MALOFIY: We also have an audio file.
THE COURT: Of what?
MR. MALOFIY: Of Mr. Page -- of this interview or part of it.
THE COURT: That's not what I asked you. As far as the newspaper article, if there's some newspaper article, you can introduce that. As far as some audio, there's been no foundation laid for that.
MR. MALOFIY: It's -- I can lay foundation by asking him if this is his voice.
THE COURT: Don't ask me how to put your case on. If you want to ask him a question, ask him a question and I'll deal with it.
MR. MALOFIY: Play the audio. 160-A.
MR. ANDERSON: I -- excuse me, Your Honor. I'm not sure what they're about to play, but I believe it's within one of the motions in limine and it's only for impeachment. I don't think he's using it for impeachment. I mean, he said he doesn't recall and --
THE COURT: Overruled. Overruled.
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you, Your Honor.
MR. MALOFIY: Can we turn up the volume there? Thank you.
(Playing of audio recording.)
(Trial Exhibit 160-A admitted into evidence.)
MR. ANDERSON: Your Honor, if he could play the whole quote and not just that.
MR. MALOFIY: Well, sure. Let's start it from the top, and it's a --
THE COURT: Counsel, no, wait. Just a second.
First of all, was that your voice?
THE WITNESS: Yes, I think so. It's very muffley and hard to understand.
THE COURT: I understand, but do you think that was your voice?
THE WITNESS: I think so.
THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead, counsel, play it.
MR. MALOFIY: Play it again.
(Playing of audio recording.)
MR. MALOFIY: Pause that for a second.
Your Honor, I was focused on this -- the first sentence --
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. MALOFIY: -- where it says, "Spirit is a band I really liked."
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Did you hear yourself say that?
A. Yes.
Q. And that's your voice, right?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. Do you recall -- earlier on -- I asked you a moment -- two questions ago, perhaps, or maybe even a little bit more, I asked you about you seeing Spirit live and you said, no, you don't recall that, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. All right. Do you recall saying in response to, "What do you think of the American pop scene," your answer was, "Blood, Sweat and Tears aren't my cup of tea. Spirit do some really nice things on albums. They give a really nice atmosphere when they play and I always enjoy seeing them."
A. I'm not really sure what that is.
Q. Are you familiar with New Musical Express? It's very popular in the UK?
A. Yes, I am.
Q. And what is New Musical Express?
A. It was a musical journal that was -- yeah, it was only in the UK. It didn't -- wasn't over here.
MR. MALOFIY: This is Exhibit 98. Can we pull that up?
THE COURT: Well, you've already read it, counsel.
MR. MALOFIY: I want to show it to him. He said he's not sure. I thought I'd show him the article to refresh his recollection.
THE COURT: Show it to him and see if it refreshes his memory, but it's not going to be presented in front of the jury yet.
THE WITNESS: Thank you very much.
THE COURT: And after reading it, the only question is does that refresh your memory as to whether or not you said that?
THE WITNESS: Well, I can't be sure whether I really said it or not. It's --
THE COURT: So it doesn't refresh your memory one way or the other?
THE WITNESS: No, it doesn't.
THE COURT: Okay. Okay. Why don't you pass it back to counsel, then. Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  That doesn't refresh your recollection, correct?
A. No, it doesn't.
Q. And you are familiar with New Musical Express, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection.
THE WITNESS: I am --
MR. ANDERSON: Asked and answered.
THE WITNESS: -- yeah.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  And do you have any reason to dispute this quote?
A. Well, the thing is the time when that is, it's -- it's in -- when is that coming out? March or May is it – I couldn't quite read it -- 1970?
Q. I'll represent it's April 25, 1970 --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- before --
A. Well, in those days -- in those days, they were still sort of jotting down things on notepads when you were -- when you were doing interviews. So it wasn't like it is today. You know, that's how journalists were doing things. 
So I -- I can't -- you know, I don't -- I don't really remember the actual interview and I don't -- you know, I can't say that I said that.
THE COURT: So you're saying you may have or you may not have?
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
THE COURT: Okay.
THE WITNESS: Basically, yeah.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  To be clear, you don't remember the interview? You don't remember giving the interview, correct?
A. Absolutely.
Q. You don't remember seeing Spirit live?
A. I didn't see Spirit live.
Q. So this quote, you dispute the accuracy of this quote?
THE COURT: Counsel, he didn't. He says he may have said it, he may not have said it. He just doesn't know.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Well, this quote says you enjoyed seeing Spirit live, correct?
A. That's what it -- that's --
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Argumentative.
THE COURT: No. Overruled.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  It says you enjoyed seeing Spirit live; isn't that correct?
A. Apparently, that's what it says, yes.
Q. And you're telling me that you don't remember the interview that you gave when you gave this quote?
THE COURT: Asked and answered.
How many times can we, you know, beat a dead horse?
It's been asked and answered.
Go ahead.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  It also says here you enjoyed Spirit albums. It has "albums" -- "albums," plural.
Did you see that when you read it?
A. I heard you say that, and I -- and I saw that part, as well.
Q. And you saw that it was in plural, correct?
A. I did see that.
Q. And prior to 1970, is it accurate that you had more than one Spirit album?
A. Well, I think we already established that I had two albums by then --
Q. And would that have been --
A. -- which was The Family That Plays Together and Clear Spirit.
Q. And it wouldn't have been the first album that came out prior to 1970 and prior to "Stairway to Heaven"?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Argumentative, lack of foundation, vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: Well, what do you mean by that? Was it the very -- are you asking him did he also have the very first album?
MR. MALOFIY: Right.
MR. ANDERSON: That's been asked and answered.
THE COURT: Okay. And he -- that's been asked and answered. He said he did not have it at that time.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Does it refresh your recollection, now seeing this interview, whether or not you had the first album, since it states here that you had albums?
THE COURT: That's argumentative, counsel.
MR. MALOFIY: I'll move forward.
Your Honor, D-98, which is defendants' exhibits, is the New Musical Express which we just impeached Mr. Page with. We'd like to move that into evidence.
MR. ANDERSON: Your Honor --
THE COURT: It's wishful thinking, counsel, when you said you think you impeached him, but if you wish to introduce that, yes, it can be received into evidence.
The Court has already indicated that he indicated he may or may not have said that, so it doesn't come in as far as his being, "Well, he's been impeached." But they can consider that as far as reaching their verdict.
MR. MALOFIY: Thank you, Your Honor.
(Trial Exhibit 98 admitted into evidence.)
THE CLERK: I'm sorry. Could I have that number?
MR. MALOFIY: I'm sorry. It's 98-00001 is the official Bates number.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. MALOFIY: And to clarify a point a moment ago, the prior official Bates number of the article from ZigZag was 160-00009.
THE COURT: Thank you.
MR. MALOFIY: With the Court's indulgence, give me one moment, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Sure.
MR. MALOFIY: Thank you.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  I want to go back to "Fresh Garbage," a song by Spirit written by Jay Ferguson.
Did you know that Jay Ferguson had written that song?
A. No, I didn't, really.
Q. Did you ever tell him you liked that song?
A. Yeah, I really liked the song.
Q. Did you ever tell Mr. Ferguson you liked that song?
A. I never met him.
Q. Okay. You did see him testify here today -- oh, I believe it was yesterday now -- oh, it was both days, actually, yeah. 
You did see Mr. Ferguson testify here in court, correct?
A. Well, I did, yeah.
Q. That was the first time -- when was the last time you saw Mr. Ferguson?
THE COURT: Last time other than today?
MR. MALOFIY: Yes.
THE WITNESS: Yesterday.
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Argumentative. Lacks foundation.
THE COURT: Did you see him before yesterday when he came in to testify?
THE WITNESS: I have no recollection.
THE COURT: You don't remember ever seeing him?
THE WITNESS: Well, I have no recollection of --
THE COURT: Okay.
THE WITNESS: No, I don't think I have ever seen him.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Let me play Exhibit 6-A, which we already played earlier on in this case.
(Counsel confer off the record.)
MR. ANDERSON: No objection, Your Honor. Thank you.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. MALOFIY: One second, Your Honor.
Exhibit 6-A is the live performance of Led Zeppelin playing "Fresh Garbage" January 10, 1969.
Can we play that audio for Mr. Page?
THE COURT: There is no objection.
(Playing of videotape.)
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Now, did you hear that?
A. I did.
Q. Do you recognize you playing guitar on that track?
A. Yes. It's in 19- -- you said January the 10th, 1969?
Q. Yes, that's --
A. Yeah.
Q. Excuse me. 1969.
A. Yeah, at the Fillmore.
Q. Yes.
A. Well, that would be then, yeah. I haven't really heard it since then, so it's a bit testy.
Q. No, that's -- but you do recognize yourself playing the "Fresh Garbage" composition, correct?
A. I recognize -- I recognize that that's Led Zeppelin doing the riff from "Fresh Garbage."
Q. Now, earlier on your counsel said it was a very short little piece of music taken. That went on, I'll represent, for 2 minutes and 51 seconds.
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. It's argumentative.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  How long did that go on for, do you know?
A. I didn't really -- I didn't have a stopwatch. I didn't check it, no. It was -- but, if you don't mind me saying, it was part of another number called "As Long As I Have You" and it was part of a segue in the middle, like a medley.
Q. It was a --
A. Yeah. So you can tell we're just jamming on that riff.  That's all we're doing.
Q. Right. So this is a riff that you were playing and you'd agree that it wasn't just a small little piece, it was a few minutes long, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection again. Argumentative.
THE COURT: Well, sustained. The jury makes that determination.
THE WITNESS: Yeah. Yeah.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  How many times did you repeat that riff over and over again?
A. Do you know if you had asked me to start counting when you played it, I might have tried to hazard a guess, but as it is, I don't know.
THE COURT: But many times, right?
THE WITNESS: Well, that night, that riff, or -- yeah, we've already -- yeah, yeah. It's repetitive, so I don't know. I didn't count. But the "Fresh Garbage" was played a number of times.
THE COURT: No question pending right now.
Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  When you say it was played a number of times, did you -- it wasn't just the bass riff that was being -- playing that piece of music; isn't that correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Vague and ambiguous.
MR. MALOFIY: Let me clarify my question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  It's not just a bass riff. In fact, Mr. John Paul Jones is playing it on bass and you're copying the same riff on guitar, correct?
A. I wouldn't call it copying, I call it playing in unison, playing together.
Q. Okay. So you're playing this piece of music, this part of this composition "Fresh Garbage," in this song that we just heard, correct?
A. Well, we're playing a riff from "Fresh Garbage."
Q. And it's not just -- on that performance that we just heard, it's not just the bass riff, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Vague and ambiguous.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  There's more than --
THE COURT: Go ahead. Ask -- reask the question then.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  It's not solely a bass riff that is being played, it's also the guitar playing it, correct?
A. On what we just heard.
MR. ANDERSON: I think counsel -- it's vague and ambiguous. I can explain why, if Your Honor --
THE COURT: No. I'm going to allow the question in.
MR. MALOFIY: Now, can we play Spirit's "Fresh Garbage," and I'll represent it's 206-A.
Your Honor, may I play the 206-A?
Thank you.
MR. ANDERSON: No objection, Your Honor, assuming -- we can't look it up at this point, but assuming it's what counsel represents, we have no objection.
(Playing of videotape.)
MR. MALOFIY: That's a mistake. We had it mislabeled, an exhibit.
I thought it -- that was -- actually, it sounds like -- obviously, Mr. Plant's voice is distinct. I believe we mislabeled an exhibit.
Give me one moment to address it with my trial tech.
My apologies and the Court's indulgence. Thank you.
My apologies, Your Honor, and -- my apologies to the Court and defense counsel. I was one exhibit off. It's 205-A,  which is Spirit performing live "Fresh Garbage."
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. ANDERSON: No objection, Your Honor --
THE COURT: You may play it, counsel.
MR. ANDERSON: -- again assuming it's what counsel represents.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. MALOFIY: I believe I got it right this time.
THE COURT: Okay.
(Playing of videotape.)
BY MR. MALOFIY:  I think that captures it. This song goes on for quite a long time and there is a breakdown part and everything else. 
You recognize that piece of music being played, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. It's vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: As to?
MR. ANDERSON: Well, he's played a live version, as opposed to the sound recording that was played, apparently, on the radio, and I'm just unclear what he's talking about. If --
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Thank you, Your Honor.
THE WITNESS: Yeah, it's not -- it's not the version that I'm familiar with that I'd heard before. I've never heard that version before, but it is "Fresh Garbage," yeah.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You could recognize it was "Fresh Garbage," correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. And that's the piece of music you were copying when you were performing live, correct?
A. From that -- from that song, we were playing the riff over and over again, yes.
Q. Now, to be clear, I believe your testimony was that you even played "Fresh Garbage" at the Denver 26 -- excuse me -- the December 26, 1968, show in Denver, Colorado.
Do you recall that?
A. Yeah, I would have thought we did, yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Q. And was that part of your staple songs during those concerts?
A. When we played "As Long As I Have You" starting from December -- in September of '68, we were doing -- we were doing "As Long As I Have You" and we were putting that in in the medley.
Because we did it during the rehearsals, as to the best of my recollection, but we definitely did it during Scandinavia and, obviously, we did it when we came here on our first date.
Q. Your first -- your first show on U.S. soil, correct?
A. In the -- Denver was our first show.
Q. Right. Now, when you said, "We were putting it in," when you say "it," what are you referring to specifically?
A. We were putting -- you know, we were leaving the medley the same as we had done it during the previous dates that we did in Scandinavia. In other words, it was in "As Long As I Have You."
Q. Well, what --
A. So we would have -- you've asked me a question would we have played it at Denver, and my answer to you is yes.
Q. And the part that you would have put in is "Fresh Garbage" -- the "Fresh Garbage" piece that we heard, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Misstates the testimony.
Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: It wouldn't have been too dissimilar to the way that you heard it at the Fillmore because that's only a few days later.
That's a pirate tape. The other one, as well, but --
BY MR. MALOFIY:  To be clear, isn't it true that "Fresh Garbage" was a staple song -- well, strike that.
Isn't it true that "As Long As I have You" containing the composition of "Fresh Garbage" was a staple song in your performances in late '68 and early '69?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Argumentative as to "containing the composition 'Fresh Garbage.'"
THE COURT: Sustained. Yeah, sustained.
In the composition, you had some riffs from "Fresh Garbage." Okay?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay. And that's what he's asking you.
Was that a staple?
THE WITNESS: Yeah, right from -- right from day one of our tour, if you like, that we did in Scandinavia, we were doing it then. So we were doing it -- we didn't have a lot of material in those days. We only had an album. So, yeah, that was part of the staple diet, if you like, of the concerts every night.
MR. MALOFIY: Now, give me -- with the Court's indulgence, I want to pull up a set list indicative of what Led Zeppelin was playing I believe right around the time -- well, around the time they were performing with Led Zeppelin.
One moment, Your Honor.
MR. ANDERSON: Do you have an exhibit number?
MR. MALOFIY: Well, I'm looking for it, yes.
MR. ANDERSON: Oh, okay.
MR. MALOFIY: Yeah, I just need a second. Sorry.
My apologies. I have to get one document, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you recall your second show on U.S. soil, whether or not it was the show in Gonzaga University?
A. What is it? Do I recall -- sorry. Can you ask the question --
Q. I believe it was the second show. It was on December 30, 1968, four days after the -- your first show in Denver, Colorado.
Do you recall that show?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Mischaracterizes the evidence, misstates the facts, and argumentative.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: What I know about that show is it's the first Led Zeppelin bootleg.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  The December 30 --
A. The Gonzaga show is the first -- I don't remember anything, really, about the show, apart from the fact that I know it's the first bootleg.
Q. Do you -- have you ever listened to that bootleg?
A. Not really.
Q. Do you agree that it has "Fresh Garbage" on it?
A. I'm sure it has.
Q. Do you agree that you also performed a song called "Train Kept A-Rollin"?
A. Yes.
Q. That was a cover song, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Do you agree that you performed a song, "I Can't Quit You Baby"?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. You agree that was a cover song?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you agree you played "Fresh" -- well, you just testified you played "Fresh Garbage."
You agree that was a cover song?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Vague and ambiguous as to "cover song." Also relevance.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: That we played the riff from "Fresh Garbage" -- I mean, yeah, I don't want anyone to get the idea that we're doing "Fresh Garbage" because we just heard a version of that with the -- with the vocal and it's got a different sort of syncopation arrangement to it. We never -- we never sang "Fresh Garbage," we just played this riff.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Understood.
A. But I agree that we played it. Yeah, we played it from day one at rehearsals.
Q. And there was also "Dazed and Confused" that you played at that show; is --
A. That's right.
Q. -- that correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Relevance.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  That was a cover, too, correct?
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  That was a cover, too?
MR. MALOFIY: I'm sorry.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. MALOFIY: I missed that, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  And you played a song called "White Summer"; isn't that correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection again. Relevance.
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  And that -- and that was a cover?
THE COURT: No, it was sustained. We don't want to go through every song they've ever played in their history.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Let me -- I'll summarize it.
The seven songs you played in -- December 30, 1968, six of those seven were covers, correct, sir?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Lacks foundation.
THE COURT: Overruled.
If you know.
THE WITNESS: I really don't know. Because I'm not partial to seeing the set list, I can't weigh it up, balance. 
MR. MALOFIY: Can I finish going through the set list with him, Your Honor?
THE COURT: Sorry?
THE WITNESS: Can I finish going through the set list with him to ask him if they were covers?
THE COURT: Again, it was irrelevant. You've mentioned several already. That should be enough.
Go ahead.
MR. MALOFIY: Very well. I'll move forward.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You'd agree with me that in the early years of Led Zeppelin, '68 and '69, before the first album came out, Led Zeppelin was primarily playing cover music, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: That Led Zeppelin were playing – well when we were in Scandinavia, we were doing Yardbirds numbers, which that was covering stuff, I suppose, if you say that. But then we were called the New Yardbirds, but it was still the members of Led Zeppelin.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  But you were covering other people's music, sir; isn't that correct?
A. We did at that time, yeah, but we also played our – we were showcasing our own album, as well, our first album.
MR. MALOFIY: If I may present this to Mr. Page – if I may approach. I would like him to take a look at the set list and share with me what other -- what original numbers are on the set list from Gonzaga.
THE COURT: Under 403 the Court is excluding it. It is much more time consuming than it is relevant, counsel.
MR. MALOFIY: Yes, Your Honor. Very well.
Understood.
THE COURT: So you covered a lot and you also played some of your own; is that correct?
THE WITNESS: That's correct.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You started -- strike that.
You were initially a session musician, correct?
A. No, I wasn't initially a session musician.
Q. Well, I imagine you picked up the guitar at a younger age. 
How old were you?
A. About 12.
Q. And I guess it's safe to assume you weren't a session musician at 12, correct?
A. That's absolutely correct.
Q. Later on -- you had a gift in being able to play the guitar, correct?
A. Well, yeah.
(Laughter.)
BY MR. MALOFIY:  And you, in fact, played as a session musician, correct?
A. Yes, when I was about 17 --
Q. And --
A. -- 18, 19.
Q. -- this went on from what years? 17, 18, 19?
A. Well, I did about four years as a studio musician from the age of about 17.
Q. Okay. And during those years, you were in the studio playing other people's music to track on records, correct?
A. Well, that is correct.
Q. Well, I appreciate that. I'm only -- it's for the orientation of the jury. They may not know what a session musician is or --
A. Okay.
Q. -- or what a session musician does. That's why I'm inquiring into that.
So a session musician, it's fair to say, plays -- goes in the studio and plays other people's music to be recorded on album recordings; fair statement?
A. It was -- that's sort of a fair analysis except --
THE COURT: Why don't we have you define what a session --
THE WITNESS: Yes, please. Yeah.
Well, the thing is I was a side man -- over here they call it a side man -- and I was a very young guitarist. In fact, I was seven years younger than any of the other musicians that were around.
And the reason why I was there was -- or how I got brought into it was the fact that I had -- I understood the points of reference for all the young musicians at that point, whether it was blues or rock and roll or whatever it was, because we had all come up through the same roots, if you like. 
So what -- initially, when I first became a studio musician, they would get me to go in there and they would give me a part, which I could read, just chords, which is very basic, and they would say just to play something to it. So I would be coming up with riffs and things.
And, basically, I must have done pretty good, because, you know, it's pretty radical for the rest of these musicians who are older than me. You know, one of those wasn't going to be working because I was there. And --
(Laughter.)
THE WITNESS: No, but it's true. And I -- and I -- and I had to -- I guess I kept managing to deliver.
THE COURT: Excuse me. Let me cut you off, because the question is what is a session musician.
THE WITNESS: Yeah. I'm trying to sort of explain it.
THE COURT: Not what you were, but what was a session musician. What is it -- well, how --
THE WITNESS: Okay. Okay. But he said you play other people's music.
THE COURT: But that's not the question in front of you now. The question is can you explain to the jury what a session musician is.
THE WITNESS: Okay. You go in and you have a chart and you play along to the chart. Sometimes it's written music.
Well, that's it. But -- and, certainly, for me, after a year or so, it was written music, as well.
THE COURT: Okay. Thank you very much.
Counsel.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  And how many sessions were you on during those years of 17, 18, 19? Would it be -- would it be 50? Would it be a hundred? Would it be hundreds?
A. Hundreds per year.
Q. Per year?
A. Yeah.
Q. Thank you.
Do you recall ever touring with Spirit?
A. No.
Q. Do you recall ever playing shows with the band Spirit?
A. No, I don't recall playing shows with them, no.
Q. Do you recall any interactions that you had with the band Spirit?
A. I didn't have any interactions with the band Spirit, no.
Q. Is it possible that you forgot your interactions with the band Spirit?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Calls for speculation.
THE COURT: It will be sustained. Obviously, it's possible for anybody to forget something.
Why don't you ask the next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You don't dispute that you performed on December 26, 1968, in Denver, Colorado, correct?
A. I did, absolutely, yeah.
Q. And you don't dispute the fact that you opened for Spirit, correct?
A. Well, it's only until this court case that I knew Spirit were on the bill -- not the court case, but all of the papers and everything.
Because on our initial dates as Led Zeppelin – there was about six of them altogether -- we were supporting Vanilla Fudge, and I always thought that that Denver show was us supporting Vanilla Fudge. I didn't know that Spirit were on until all of this has come up.
Q. Did you hear the testimony earlier on today where Spirit and Vanilla Fudge co-headlined that tour?
A. Yes. I've heard it since I've been in here, yeah.
Q. Is that the first time you heard that?
A. Yeah, I didn't -- yeah, sure.
Q. Do you have any recollection of whether or not you were excited to open for a band that you were covering their music?
A. Well, I don't think -- I don't think that we were --
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Argumentative. Lacks foundation.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. ANDERSON: And vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: Why don't you rephrase the question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Were you excited to be opening for a band that you appreciated?
A. Well, I was excited to be opening for Vanilla Fudge because they were great heroes of ours.
Q. Oh, I see.
How many Vanilla Fudge songs did you cover?  None --
A. Well, I don't think --
Q. -- correct?
A. -- I don't think we necessarily covered any of their music.
Q. So --
A. Paid attention very much to how -- you know, what they did on their records.
Q. Right. You --
A. Familiar with them.
Q. -- paid attention to what they did, but you never incorporated it as part of your live set, correct?
A. Well, I don't think we used like a little phrase of theirs repetitively, no.
Q. So getting back to my question, were you excited to open for a band that you appreciated --
MR. ANDERSON: It's vague --
BY MR. MALOFIY:  -- Spirit?
MR. ANDERSON: Vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: He answered yes, he was.
MR. MALOFIY: He said yes to Vanilla Fudge.
THE COURT: Yeah. Oh, were you asking him – why don't you restate the question again. I didn't hear you say "Spirit" on it.
MR. MALOFIY: I'm sorry, Your Honor.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Were you excited to open for a band you appreciated, Spirit?
A. I didn't know they were on the bill.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  When you -- do you recall, when you were playing their song at that concert, if you then realized that they were on the bill?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Argumentative.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: No, I don't -- I -- you know, I really don't have any recollection of them being on the -- on the show. I just remember -- from my memory recall, I just know that we were on and we were supporting Vanilla Fudge, but that's it.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  From your memory recall, do you recall "Taurus" being performed at that show?
A. Well, by Vanilla Fudge? No. No.
Q. No. "Taurus" not by Vanilla Fudge.
A. I didn't hear. I didn't hear --
Q. I'm sorry.
A. I didn't hear Spirit at the Denver show.
THE COURT: So your testimony is you didn't hear Spirit --
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: -- so you didn't hear "Taurus" performed by them?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay. Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Why didn't you hear Spirit?
THE COURT: He said he didn't hear it.
MR. MALOFIY: Well, I'm asking him why.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Did -- was there a reason why? Were -- that you didn't hear Spirit?
A. I think the reason would have been we definitely would have opened up this. I remember it was a huge place and we opened it up, and we had to move on to another show after that. 
The following day was Seattle, and I would assume that we probably had to make a run for it after we'd more or less finished.
Q. Let's be clear. You said you would assume.
Do you have a distinct memory of what you did after you finished that first show on December 26, 1968? Yes, you do, or no, you don't?
A. I have a memory of after having done the show, yes, I do. 
Q. And is that memory that you immediately ran out the door?
A. No.
Q. Is that memory that you didn't hear any of Spirit's set, who played right after you?
A. Oh, it certainly -- it certainly doesn't have anything to do with Spirit, my memory recall at this point.
Q. And do you recall any other music being played by any other band that night?
A. No, not necessarily, no.
Q. Your first time in -- you're in the United States, correct? Oh, no.
A. Yes.
Q. I'm sorry. You were there before. Mr. Plant -- I'm sorry.
This was not the first time you were in the United States, correct?
A. No, that's correct. I had been over here with the Yardbirds.
Q. Right. And when you were over here with the Yardbirds, didn't you become familiar with the band Spirit?
A. I heard Spirit on the radio at that time.
Q. Right. Did you also --
A. I think -- you know, I think I did. It's fair enough to say that.
Q. So even before Led Zeppelin, when you were with the band the Yardbirds, you were familiar with the band Spirit, correct?
A. I had heard Spirit on the radio over here and in the UK.
Q. So to be clear, you were familiar with the band Spirit in the United States and in the United Kingdom from hearing it on the radio in two separate countries?
A. Well, I had heard it. I mean, not all the time, but I had heard "Fresh Garbage" on the radio, yeah.
Q. How many other songs did you hear on the radio prior to January 1971?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Vague.
THE COURT: How many other songs?
MR. MALOFIY: Spirit songs. Spirit -- excuse me.
Thank you for the clarification, Your Honor.
THE COURT: You bet.
MR. MALOFIY: Spirit songs.
THE WITNESS: Between when?
BY MR. MALOFIY:  I should say the titles of the songs themselves.
Between the beginning of time and 1971, January – 
A. Yeah.
Q. -- how many different --
A. Okay.
Q. -- Spirit songs did you hear playing on the radio?
A. Okay. I heard "Fresh Garbage" and I heard "I've Got a Line on You Babe" and I heard "Dark Eyed Woman."
Q. So let me get that correct.
"Fresh Garbage" was on the first album. The second one you mentioned was "I Got a Line on You"?
A. Yeah.
Q. That was on the second album, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. And the third song was -- what was it?
A. "Dark Eyed Woman" is on the third album.
Q. When you -- did you become a fan after hearing -- a fan of Spirit after hearing "Fresh Garbage"?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: Well, it depends on what you mean by "fan."
Why don't you -- I don't know. Why don't you reask the question.
MR. MALOFIY: I -- I -- it's --
THE COURT: Maybe there's no other word you can use.
MR. MALOFIY: I mean, I -- I can step through it, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Well, let's -- were you a follower of theirs after you heard their music?
THE WITNESS: I didn't follow it necessarily. After hearing "Fresh Garbage," I just thought that was quite a good riff.
THE COURT: So you enjoyed their music?
THE WITNESS: Oh, yeah, I enjoyed what I heard.
THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  In appreciating or enjoying their music, did you then want to listen to and buy the first album?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: I didn't buy the first album.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Okay. What songs did you play on December 26, 1968, in Denver, Colorado?
A. Okay. We probably played "Train Kept A-Rollin."
Q. Hold on. One second there. "Train Kept A-Rollin."
A. Yeah. I honestly -- I'll never be able to give you the full set list. I'm sorry. But I think we probably opened with "Train Kept A-Rollin."
Q. What would be the next song?
THE COURT: If you remember.
THE WITNESS: I don't really remember. I don't remember what the next song was.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you remember what was typical on your set list during those years?
A. Yes, but I can't -- yeah. Yeah. I can remember numbers that we did, yeah.
Q. Can you remember those songs that you did in those early years?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you -- can you give me a typical set list or the set list that you used in -- December 26, 1968?
A. I can't -- I can't give you like first number, second number, third number, fourth number, no.
Q. I don't --
A. I can tell you -- you want me -- I can give a rough approximation of a set, but it doesn't mean to say that it is the full set. It probably means it's a rough approximation of maybe half a dozen numbers.
Q. Approximation of a half a dozen numbers?
A. Okay. Okay. So we did the "Train Kept A-Rollin." We would have done "You Shook Me." We would have done "I Can't Quit You Baby." We would have done "Communication Breakdown."
Let's see. Oh, "Babe I'm Going to Leave You," we'd do that.
THE COURT: Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Is that all you can recall?
A. Yeah. I'm sure Mr. Plant can probably do a better job than me, but that's about it for the minute.
Oh, sorry. "As Long As I Have You." It's obvious we did that.
Q. And that's -- that's the medley that contains the piece of music from "Fresh Garbage," correct?
A. Yes.
MR. MALOFIY: We have Defense Exhibit 158, which is Bates'd as 100158.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Sir, this document is from a newspaper. It's --
MR. ANDERSON: Your Honor, if counsel could please identify it to counsel so I know what we're talking about.
THE COURT: I thought he gave you the exhibit number.
MR. ANDERSON: Right, but we don't show a 158, so if I can just please see it.
(Counsel confer off the record.)
THE CLERK: I'm sorry. Could I get the Bates number again?
MR. MALOFIY: Yes. It's 100158.
THE CLERK: Thank you.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Earlier on, you said you didn't recall opening for Spirit, correct?
A. Yes, I would have said that, yeah.
Q. Okay. Can we -- in this article, you said: "Page reflected on Zeppelin's success, 'It's kind'" -- quote, "It's kind of funny on our first tour around we played second fiddle to other groups. Last time we were the second group and Spirit was -- and Spirit was the third. Now we've each gone up a notch on the current to where Spirit has second billing."
This is from June 7, 1969.
Did you forget that you opened for Spirit in the last 30 years?
A. Well, I didn't think we did open for Spirit. And actually -- yeah, okay. Well, this is what I'm saying. As far as Denver, I thought it was Vanilla Fudge. But here I am now.
This is 1969 you're saying, so (indicating).
MR. MALOFIY: May I publish this to the jury? I believe there's no objection from defense counsel.
THE COURT: Yes.
THE WITNESS: Actually, I can't see it on – my monitor isn't working possibly, but I -- oh, okay.
(The exhibit was displayed on the screen.)
BY MR. MALOFIY:  For the orientation of the jury, Mr. Page, I'm referring to the end of the first column and the top of the second column. I believe there is a --
MR. MALOFIY: I believe this -- this monitor is not working, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Well, we had one -- there you go.
MR. MALOFIY: For the orientation of the jury, I'm referring to the second column here and the top of the third.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Mr. Page, can you see that?
A. To be honest with you, my eyes are really bad and I just tried with my spectacles and I can't see. I can see the two -- the yellow bits that I'm supposed to be looking at.
THE COURT: Can it be enlarged at all?
MR. MALOFIY: Oh, yes. Please enlarge for Mr. --
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
MR. MALOFIY: -- Page or I can hand him a paper copy if that would benefit --
THE WITNESS: That will be fine. Thank you very much.
THE COURT: You may.
MR. MALOFIY: (Indicating.)
THE WITNESS: Thanks.
Oh, I see. Well, I see what's written.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Does that refresh your recollection --
A. No, it doesn't.
Q. -- that you toured with Spirit and opened for Spirit?
A. That we toured with Spirit? Well, I can see what's written.
Q. Do you dispute the accuracy of the quote or do you just not remember?
A. Well, I don't really remember the context of -- it's referring to two times here, isn't it, really.
Q. Well, this is quotes attributed to you.
Is there any reason that you would dispute this quote that's attributed to you or is it just that you don't remember giving this quote?
A. I certainly don't remember giving the quote, that's for sure.
Q. Do you dispute that you opened for Spirit?
A. During the testimony of this court case, I've heard that on the first Denver show, they closed the show. But I didn't -- I wasn't aware of that. But I understand that conflicts with this, but --
MR. MALOFIY: With the Court's indulgence, just to be -- so I know where I'm going with the -- with the questioning of this witness, are we stopping exactly at 4:00,
Your Honor?
THE COURT: We're stopping exactly at 4:00, which is about 30 seconds from now, so why don't we break now.
MR. MALOFIY: Very well, Your Honor. Thank you.
THE COURT: Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, at this time we are breaking for the evening. Remember that admonishment that I always give you not to discuss the case among yourselves or with anybody else or form or express any opinions about the matter until it's submitted to you and you retire to the jury room.
Have a pleasant evening. Watch -- is it tonight or tomorrow night, the NBA playoffs? Anyway, watch TV, but don't think about this case until you get back tomorrow.
So I'm going to excuse you at this time. I'm going to ask you to leave quietly, because afterwards I'm going to talk to the attorneys a little bit.
You may also step down, sir.
THE WITNESS: Thank you, sir.
THE CLERK: All rise.

TOMORROW: read as Mr Malofiy asks Jimmy Page the same question over and over and never gets the reply he wants.



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